From Passion to Precision: Dr. Gregg Kinzer on Evolving Dentistry
Episode Description
Dr. Gregg Kinzer joins Dr. Mustafa and Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan to share his journey from dental school to leading prosthodontist and educator. He discusses mentorship, digital vs. analog workflows, and how Spear Education helps dentists simplify complexity. A must-listen for clinicians at any stage looking to build confidence and master the fundamentals.
Episode Navigation
- 00:20 – Introduction to Dr. Gregg Kinzer
- 01:05 – His path into prosthodontics and near miss with orthodontics
- 03:30 – Lessons from working alongside Frank Spear
- 09:15 – The evolution of treatment planning
- 14:40 – Digital vs. analog: finding the right workflow
- 23:50 – Teaching simplicity in complexity
- 37:10 – Advice for new dentists
- 41:25 – Insights for mid-career clinicians
- 46:00 – Building confidence through consistency
Featured Discussion Topics
- Career development and mentorship
- The future of dental education
- Practical use of digital dentistry
- Team-based interdisciplinary treatment
- Teaching and leadership in clinical practice
Meet Our Guest
Dr. Gregg Kinzer: Seattle-based prosthodontist, international lecturer, and faculty leader at Spear Education. President of the American Academy of Esthetic Dentistry, known for expertise in interdisciplinary care and advanced treatment planning. Passionate about helping dentists develop confidence through clarity and mastery of foundational skills.
Connect With Simplify Dentistry
- Website: simplifydds.com
- Podcast: Available on all major platforms
- Social Media: Follow for updates and community engagement
Topics: prosthodontics, dental education, mentorship, digital dentistry, treatment planning, interdisciplinary care, clinical leadership, dental confidence, foundational skills
Transcript
00;00;01;47 – 00;00;09;30
Intro
Welcome to the Simplify Dentistry Podcast. Join us as we discuss clinical, operational and financial aspects of your practice.
00;00;09;35 – 00;00;11;07
Intro
Hope you enjoy life.
00;00;11;12 – 00;00;15;48
Intro
And dare to Simplify Dentistry.
00;00;15;53 – 00;00;42;50
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Welcome back to the Simplify Dentistry Podcast. I’m Doctor Mustafa Shah-Khan along with my brother and co-host Doctor Murtuza Shah-Khan. We’d like to welcome today’s guest, Doctor Gregory Kinzer. Doctor Kinzer received his D.D.S. degree from the University of Washington in 1995 and his MSD and Certificate in Prosody in 1998. Doctor Kinzer is an internationally recognized speaker and current president of the American Academy of Esthetic Dentistry.
00;00;42;55 – 00;01;00;54
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
He is a full time teaching faculty, faculty chair, and director of Curriculum and Campus Education for Spear Education in Scottsdale, Arizona. We want to welcome Doctor Gregg Kinzer with us today. Gregg, thank you for being with us. Look forward to this conversation and, seeing how things are going with you.
00;01;00;59 – 00;01;02;53
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
My pleasure.
00;01;02;58 – 00;01;16;18
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
So kind of, what we like to ask people is kind of a little bit about their journey, kind of, go over your journey into dentistry, what got you there and kind of, how you’ve kind of transitioned through through education and all that sort of stuff.
00;01;16;33 – 00;01;46;19
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. My journey into dentistry is an interesting one, because I didn’t have any aspirations to be in dentistry at all growing up. My parents, no family members, nobody was in dentistry. Although, I grew up in a small town in eastern Washington, and, you know, as any small town kid, I mowed lawns and, one of the lawns that I mowed growing up was, just happened to be an orthodontist.
00;01;46;24 – 00;01;59;34
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And, this guy was killing it, right? He had a beautiful home and a beautiful yard, a little stream going through it. Had horses. Like, it was great. I said, what’s that guy do? Well, he’s an orthodontist. I said, well, what is that?
00;02;00;25 – 00;02;19;10
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I said, I want to do that. Yeah, right. So I kind of got into dentistry and then. And then our neighbor turned out, you know, neighbor moved in. He just happened to be a dentist. So that was my inspiration was I had a neighbor that was a dentist, and I took care of a guy’s lawn. But my goal was to actually, be an orthodontist.
00;02;19;15 – 00;02;42;09
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Right. So I went to dental school with that as my goal. And, got sidetracked into pros, because it was fun. I finished my requirements relatively soon, and so I got sent, you know, bigger cases. And I had a process on this as my go to faculty, like he was assigned to my space.
00;02;42;09 – 00;02;53;11
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so I was doing some bigger cases with him. And he just kept kind of putting it in my ear like, hey, Greg, have you thought about doing this? And I’m like, no, dude, I’m doing awesome.
00;02;53;16 – 00;02;54;48
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
That’s right.
00;02;54;53 – 00;03;12;19
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
But every time I’d have him in clinic, he would say the same things. And, finally, you know, when you get into your third year and you start looking at the application process, there is a boatload of people in my, in my, year that we’re going to, you know, specialize. And a lot of them were going into ortho.
00;03;12;23 – 00;03;35;20
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Nobody was going into pros. Right. And, and I started looking at it more and I said, you know, it’s really enjoyable. I like that aspect of it. I like the immediate gratification of changing something esthetically or functionally. And so, I got into pros and, even in process. So I went to pros at Washington as well.
00;03;35;24 – 00;03;59;22
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I looked at, finishing process and going into ortho, like I still had it in the back of my mind that I wanted to do it. And I don’t know if you guys know, a name. Ward Smalley. Ward Smalley was a, UW trained process. Adonis who practiced a while that went back and did ortho and, then practice as an orthodontist.
00;03;59;27 – 00;04;26;28
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so he was one of our faculty. And I said to Ward, I said, I’m thinking of going into ortho when I’m done. And he said, he goes, well, he goes, I would encourage you to practice a little bit, right. Don’t just jump from program to program. Practice as a process. Adonis. If you go for a couple of years and you still have this bug in your, you know, ear about going into ortho, I’ll support it.
00;04;26;33 – 00;04;43;29
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
But you got to give me some time out there working. And I said, all right. And then probably a few months later, I get a call at the school from Frank Spear that had asked if I might want to be going into practice with him when I finished, and then all my ass.
00;04;43;29 – 00;04;44;51
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Pretty good call.
00;04;44;56 – 00;04;48;08
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Or that went away.
00;04;48;13 – 00;05;07;22
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So. So I was like, wow, this is like a dream come true. Because we used to sit around, you know, you’re and in the process program, you would be doing all your lab work. You’d be sitting in the process lab, you know, it’d be midnight and you would just make up scenarios to help the time go by and you’d ask questions.
00;05;07;22 – 00;05;29;31
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And one of the questions that we continually asked each other was like, if you had a magic wand and you could go into practice with anyone, where would you go? Because our two big influences at that time were Frank Spear and John Kois, because they would invite us to their courses. And so it was like that you’re choosing Frank or John, right?
00;05;29;36 – 00;05;57;45
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Like Elvis or the Beatles, like. Yeah. Which one? Yeah. So this was really special. And, we spoke for about three months to, make sure that it was a good fit for both of us because he had already kind of been down the road of having some people, and that didn’t work out. So when I got into practice with Frank, I, had the ability now to help in his teaching.
00;05;57;50 – 00;06;13;35
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
It happened right out of the right, out of the gate. You see it? One of the things that in Washington is you, one of the courses you take in process is you take a whole quarter course on how to put a lecture together, and then you give a lecture and you get one presentation.
00;06;14;20 – 00;06;39;43
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So you gave it to the ortho perio process. Oral surgery programs and the directors. And then you would get graded on this. Right. So it was a whole course on photography and putting your content together like you know, tell them what you’re going to tell them. And then you do all of that stuff. And so when I got into practice with Frank, I had already enjoyed the teaching aspect because my I came from teachers.
00;06;39;43 – 00;07;02;51
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
My, my father was a teacher, my mother, my sister, like, everybody was a teacher. So I was the black sheep going into dentistry. But then I came back into the family by going into education. Right. I’m a teacher, put this lecture together. I enjoyed it, and so I put another one together for fun. For fun it was for profit because as a grad student, you’re right.
00;07;02;51 – 00;07;12;11
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
You’re you would go do the study club circuit. Yeah. For dinner. I was doing it. I was working for food.
00;07;12;16 – 00;07;12;34
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Right.
00;07;12;45 – 00;07;19;53
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
You’re a poor grad student. And so I put two lectures together so I could hit the study clubs and I could get, you know, some nice meals.
00;07;20;39 – 00;07;44;21
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So it was a nice transition with Frank because I got to go into an educational, practice with already having the passion of bringing in educational piece to what I did. I just got to do it at a much greater and different level by coming in to practice with Frank. So it was a it was really a good fit.
00;07;44;25 – 00;07;54;48
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so, you know, here we are many, many years later, where I’m, you know, I have a huge role in the educational component, but I’m still in clinical practice.
00;07;54;53 – 00;08;22;01
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
How has frank stuff impacted you? So you look at, like, we’ve gone to all the spirit stuff and just kind of started, you know, when Frank was still doing hotel courses and all that sort of stuff. Which was kind of seems crazy now, but, yeah. So we pick up all kinds of things and you learn all this stuff, you know, were you being impacted from an educational perspective by him, or did you already have all this educational, acumen?
00;08;22;06 – 00;08;47;34
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
That’s a that’s a great question. And I would say it’s it’s I a little bit of both. All right. So, as a grad student at University of Washington at that point, it was an amazing program. It was like, if you look on the international lecture circuit, a lot of the people out there across the world, they’re they’re this the little bubble of UW trained protagonists, that.
00;08;47;42 – 00;09;04;21
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so it was like it was it just groomed, you know, like there’s certain universities that like quarterback, you like you want to be a quarterback in the NFL. This is where you go. So that’s kind of what that’s kind of what UW was like. So I had a pretty good clinical background. But again, I’ve never I never been in practice.
00;09;04;26 – 00;09;26;44
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So when I came into practice with Frank, he he wasn’t in clinical practice much. Right. So I’ll give you I’ll give you just generalization. When I came into practice with him before I came in, he was seeing patients 30 days a year. Oh, that’s before I got there. Okay, so that’s. He was mainly doing things like you said.
00;09;26;44 – 00;09;31;47
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
He’s got his his workshops and his hotel courses that that was his focus. And so he did something.
00;09;31;47 – 00;09;35;20
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
He was he just treating dentist in those 30 days typically or.
00;09;35;25 – 00;09;59;05
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
A lot of dentists. Yes, a lot of dentists. And then it turned out to be a lot of like relatives and family and business types of thing. So when I came into clinical practice, Bob Winter was in practice with Frank. And so when that. Yeah. So Bob was in practice with Frank. And so I actually got a lot of my clinical chops from Bob because Bob was in practice.
00;09;59;51 – 00;10;20;28
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So I was spending more time with Bob. So what I got from Frank then was the, the way to think through like one of the things that he does almost better than anybody, was take a complex problem and break it down into, an easy to, to think of thought process that people can go, I can do that.
00;10;20;30 – 00;10;40;43
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Like that makes sense. I can do that. So when I would sit in on on his lectures when I was in practice with him, I’m taking tons of notes. And I guess maybe in the first year a lot of my notes were maybe clinically based. But then it became, how did he just explain that? How did he break that down?
00;10;40;43 – 00;10;55;33
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Like what was his what was his thought process. So so I turned myself into how can I do what he does but do it my own way? So I think I got a little of both from him. Yeah.
00;10;55;33 – 00;10;56;30
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
And that’s awesome.
00;10;56;35 – 00;11;15;09
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
You know, I think it’s it’s really kind of crazy, you know, when, when I started down the educational path, you know, I was what you would characterize is the aspirational doc. You know, I was I was right out of school, I was, dangerously competent in, or dangerously incompetent.
00;11;15;14 – 00;11;17;44
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
A fine line. And so. Exactly.
00;11;17;59 – 00;11;26;26
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
That’s a it’s, I guess what what did they say? It’s, it’s unconscious incompetence. You you’re so incompetent that you don’t even know it.
00;11;26;31 – 00;11;29;23
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Yeah. Oh.
00;11;29;28 – 00;11;48;04
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
But, you know, I remember the first thing I did is I went to, Dawson, and I thought, Dawson. Okay, this is the fundamentals of occlusion. It’s this, that, and the other. You go to Dawson for a week, and I feel like all you learn in a week is. Is how teeth come together a little bit. And then he says, if you come back in another week, I’m gonna tell you what a night guard is.
00;11;48;17 – 00;11;52;53
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
If you come back for another week, I’m gonna tell you how to do a night guard.
00;11;52;57 – 00;11;53;26
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
And I was.
00;11;53;26 – 00;12;13;05
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Like, what in the hell is going on here? So then I went to Frank’s course occlusion in Clinical practice. And I remember one of the first things he did is he started talking about, you know, how to calibrate a case and this, that and the other. And it was like, you know, people talk about medial, upper, distal, lower, all of this stuff.
00;12;13;10 – 00;12;22;21
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
And, he was like, the way he looked at it is just do whatever’s easiest. If it’s a crown, carve on the crown. Not.
00;12;22;26 – 00;12;23;02
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
You know.
00;12;23;07 – 00;12;44;58
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
He goes, don’t worry about all that stuff. Do whatever, whatever’s easiest and that, that, I mean, that changed my whole trajectory in education. Is that how you’ve kind of started looking at how how you teach, with kind of the simplified dentistry? And let’s simplify the process. Let’s take the complex, thing and show it to people in a simple manner.
00;12;45;08 – 00;13;07;36
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah, I think, I think at least I try to do that. And I think Frank obtained that from when he was in the, in the grad program. It was Ralph U. Davis that was the program chair. And Ralph’s kind of the guy that made that program, like, so special. It’s all attributed to him. And and he’s the one that started that.
00;13;07;36 – 00;13;39;02
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Let’s just simplify things. Meaning that there was back at like for Frank, it was back in the days of methodology where if you mounted your case and then you tried it in and you didn’t have a perfect occlusion, you did something wrong. You got to remount it right. And then and so Ralph said it, if you if it’s not perfect, when you bring it back to the mouth, grind it until it’s until it fits like this makes no sense to remount something ten times.
00;13;39;13 – 00;14;03;23
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. Right. And so so Frank. Frank then built upon that. Like there’s one thing to be an education and try to teach you this pinnacle of ideal. And then you guys know there’s clinical reality. All right. Right. But how many times do you look at the schedule for the next day. And in your mind, you can you can walk through your exact appointment?
00;14;03;23 – 00;14;36;46
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I’m going to do that that and then you get into it and nothing ever goes the same way. Yeah. Right. So the clinical point is everything we do, you have to be able to think through what’s the best way to get through this. What’s the easiest way for me to do it. That still maintains predictability. And so I think being a an actively practicing dentist is imperative if you’re going to be in education because, hey, what we do is not easy.
00;14;36;51 – 00;14;57;46
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Materials change, techniques change. And the question is, well, what’s what’s going to be the easiest that’s going to get the outcome functionally or esthetically or predictability wise. And let’s teach to that. Right. But let’s take let’s take all of the factors and we can’t dumb it down to the point where you’re just, again, turning a blind eye to all of this shit that can happen.
00;14;57;59 – 00;15;20;53
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah, but but bring it in such a way that this makes sense and, and I can hopefully tell it in such a way that there’s a concept that you’re going to get that you can apply across the board as opposed to a cookbook, because nothing is ever a cookbook. Right. And so I hopefully I think, I think I’ve done it, I, I’ve come a long way.
00;15;20;53 – 00;15;42;57
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I have people come up to me all the time and they say, Greg, don’t don’t take this the wrong way. But I heard you when you initially started working with Frank. I heard you teach because Frank would like, give me, you know, an hour or so to do something. And, and they’d go, you it was, you weren’t Frank.
00;15;43;02 – 00;16;01;00
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
They go but now like now I think that you’ve actually surpassed him Mike. You’ve actually improved the way you speak and the way you think and the way you break it down. It’s like really it’s amazing. And so they don’t want me to take it the wrong way, saying that I was like shitty before. They say you’re better now.
00;16;01;14 – 00;16;02;17
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
We know I’m. Well,
00;16;02;22 – 00;16;12;02
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
I was in one of those seminars, in Scottsdale where literally you came and Frank was doing the seminar, and he was like, hey, I’ve got this guy who’s going to come up next concert.
00;16;12;07 – 00;16;12;32
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
I remember we.
00;16;12;32 – 00;16;14;14
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Were like, Who is Greg Kinzer?
00;16;14;14 – 00;16;15;42
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. What the hell’s.
00;16;15;42 – 00;16;16;08
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Happening.
00;16;16;08 – 00;16;17;07
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Here? Yeah, I thought I.
00;16;17;07 – 00;16;17;32
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Came to see.
00;16;17;32 – 00;16;20;24
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Frank. And why is Frank taking a lunch break now.
00;16;20;28 – 00;16;22;17
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
That.
00;16;22;22 – 00;16;33;44
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
I remember one time I was supposed to get a workshop and it was when Frank was transitioning out, and they’re like, well, Frank’s not going to do it. Doctor Kendra’s going to do it. And I was like, well, I’m not fucking coming. Yeah.
00;16;33;49 – 00;16;34;30
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
And I could.
00;16;34;30 – 00;16;35;26
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Say I was wrong about.
00;16;35;26 – 00;16;37;23
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
That. But I’ll tell you what.
00;16;37;23 – 00;16;55;18
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
That guy used to throw me to the fire, though, like, we would do these hotel courses, right? And it would be like, let’s say it would be something in Seattle. And he would say, hey, can you come in at this time? And I have an hour and a half section that you can do, and, and I said, what is it?
00;16;55;18 – 00;17;17;24
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And he would say it’s super easy. It’s like it’s your case. But here’s the rub. He put it together himself. And I’m like, even though you might look at what he does and go, oh, that’s really clean. That’s a nice way to think. That’s not typically how my mind would work. Yeah. So I would like he was already in the handout.
00;17;17;29 – 00;17;35;57
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so I would get in there, you know 30 minutes before. And I would actually be like cramming like for a test and looking at what he put together because that’s not how I would put it together. And then I’d have to get in front of somebody and do it. And it’s like, this is fucking tear this like a knife, right?
00;17;36;02 – 00;17;51;53
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so, you know, maybe thinking on your feet, maybe it helps, it helps you. But, yeah, those early days for me were, were very stressful. Unless he let me put it together myself. So there’s a learning curve to everything we do.
00;17;52;06 – 00;18;12;13
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah, yeah. So that’s one thing. I mean, you’ve kind of touched on a little bit how you and Frank are different. And how is that from going in working with him? I heard a story on this other podcast that you’re on, and you described it as Frank, is really nice to patients and sees a lot of patients that you don’t see.
00;18;12;18 – 00;18;20;32
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
And your words exactly where I’m an asshole when I need to be.
00;18;20;36 – 00;18;43;21
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah, that’s actually quite, that’s that’s that’s quite true. Frank is a is again just he’s like a he’s like, just a big teddy bear is just a big sweetheart. He would he would have trouble like, if he had a fire employee. He didn’t fire in a play. He would have somebody else do it. Right. So when he.
00;18;43;22 – 00;18;58;02
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
When he brought Gary DeWood in, and then there was somebody before Gary, like they was running a helping to run his teaching like that was the person that he had him do all of the grunt work, all of the all the shitty things. I need you to let this person go. Okay.
00;18;58;06 – 00;18;58;57
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Well.
00;18;59;02 – 00;19;09;24
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
It’s your job now, so I, I, I, you know, you can imagine this, that the practice is a dumping ground, right?
00;19;09;24 – 00;19;12;14
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
For, for sure of patients. Sure.
00;19;12;19 – 00;19;31;12
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so, you know, you hope that your staff can, can find the red flags and keep them out, but occasionally some sneak in and, and Frank, you know, once they saw him, he couldn’t say no to them. So when I got into practice, I was the dumping ground for Frank’s patients. Right. He gave me all the all of the headache patients.
00;19;31;12 – 00;19;56;40
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so I, I was like I’m not seeing them. Right. Not, I’m not going to do it like I, I know who this patient is. I think about them I’m not willing to do that. And so yeah. So I tried to I tried to control that environment very early. But but I’m not frank. And and again people I remember doing a course with him in Seattle was like, you know, take an occlusion workshop.
00;19;56;40 – 00;20;16;06
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so he would teach by directly in the morning. I’d see patients, in the afternoon, they’d come back in the office and I would help do the hands on. And so I remember walking from the back, back to the front of the office at the end of the day and speaking with the dentist. And he was like, almost perplexed.
00;20;16;11 – 00;20;40;33
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
He’s like, well, you know, you’re you’re you’re nothing like Frank. And I’m like. I looked at him a little confused, and I said, I said, I’m not trying to be frank. I’m trying to make a name for myself and get out of his giant shadow. That he has. Not that it’s not that it’s bad, but, you know, it’s like, I don’t I don’t want to be the guy that’s just there because of Frank.
00;20;40;34 – 00;20;46;31
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And I’m, you know, listen to me. You’re gonna have to listen to me because Frank says I. You’re going to listen to this.
00;20;46;36 – 00;20;47;39
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
And so we’ve all been.
00;20;47;45 – 00;21;09;05
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I yeah, I worked hard to be able to, to differentiate myself and just to do things my way, to think through things my way. And, and I think it took me some time to have comfort with that for I think, I think every young dentist who goes into practice, they, they emulate who they’re with. Right? Because that’s the only thing you know, right?
00;21;09;05 – 00;21;34;32
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
You don’t know. You haven’t been in practice before. So you’re you’re looking at your mentor, whoever you’re in practice with and you’re thinking, that’s the way I should do this. And in reality, you can learn a lot from the person, but you also have to find your own way. Yeah. And I think you know, you take some lumps in the process, but you get to the point where you find out who you are as a dentist and what your belief system is and what you want to achieve.
00;21;34;32 – 00;21;38;33
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
What level of dentistry do you do you personally want to do.
00;21;38;38 – 00;21;57;13
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
This kind of back up a little bit? Yeah, I’m a 54 year old dentists. I think we’re reasonably around the same age. So when I came out as all, all PVS, you know, everything you did was PVS, you know, you know, I worked with, you know, with a Willy Geller oral design guy, forever and still work with him.
00;21;57;13 – 00;22;09;56
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
And, you know, he’s a master ceramicist, and, you know, so you’re he’s he’s still all PVS. Sure. Do you use any PVS? Have you transitioned to all digital? Where where is your world?
00;22;10;01 – 00;22;36;15
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. So I, I’m, I’m almost 57. Right. So I was, I was, I was built in the age of all analog and has across the données. It’s even more so you’re pushed into all the analog and and now we’re in a whole different part of, of dentistry because we have such a huge digital impact of what we’re able to do.
00;22;36;20 – 00;23;11;01
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I would say that I am in both worlds. But because of because of my age, I’m going to say that I’m still probably more on it on the PVS side. Okay. Because because of my ceramicist and because of some of the things that I know from my grad training that still have accuracy beyond beyond the digital realm and certain pieces that I actually now choose to be in digital and choose to be an analog, specifically on the case that I’m treating.
00;23;11;06 – 00;23;23;08
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So yeah, I’m back and forth and it’s confusing. It’s a little bit confusing to my staff because they don’t they don’t like I’m going to throw them a curveball and they’re going, no, I thought you to do this one digital. Well this one I’m going to do analog. And here’s why.
00;23;23;13 – 00;23;43;07
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Yeah I mean it’s crazy. So basically every full arch I do and every, you know, almost anterior case, anything I do with Skip carpenter or technician is, is all analog. And you know, when I started doing digital aspects, now I’m a Serac user, for kind of day in, day out stuff. You know, I was like, well, Skip, you get it.
00;23;43;07 – 00;24;03;03
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
You got to get on board, man. We got to start, looking at being able to scan things. So we scanned, cases with an AI tarot with a serac, and we took Pvz impression, and we. And he made them all on the PVS, and we would take them to all of them. And it was crazy. The difference.
00;24;03;03 – 00;24;24;27
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
And Fitz on those things. And you know, the one where they all fit is the PBS. So that’s where kind of my struggle is with it, because I feel like the and he’s the even the first one to say that the and the digital information is great and it’s, it’s really good information. But you have to exist in the digital world to do it.
00;24;24;39 – 00;24;33;03
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Yeah. It’s almost like he’s like, you can’t or he can’t find a way to take digital and analog and you know, by printing models to make them predictable.
00;24;33;08 – 00;24;40;49
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
You’re 100% correct. And I and I loved you sound like me because that’s that’s my take on it.
00;24;40;54 – 00;24;43;17
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Because I’m a stubborn old dentist.
00;24;43;21 – 00;24;46;45
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
This is the get off my lawn dentist.
00;24;46;50 – 00;24;47;42
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Now, I that’s.
00;24;47;42 – 00;25;12;24
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
That’s what we are. But you’re you’re 100% correct and I don’t I wonder if, the newer dentists who’ve never lived in the analog world, they don’t know this. They don’t know what you just said. And you said it extremely well. Digital is great if you stay digital, but if you want your technician to have their hands on it, then the analog, if you’re going to stay, if you want the analog world, you want the benefits that that provides.
00;25;12;24 – 00;25;35;23
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
You’ve got to stay in the analog world because otherwise you’re taking a lot of you’re leaving a lot on the table as far as accuracy of things that, you know, could be better. Yeah, yeah. But the reality is this does it still work? Sure. But if you know, if your accuracy level is trying to get here, it doesn’t work as well as it is.
00;25;35;23 – 00;25;36;40
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
It you know, it could.
00;25;36;44 – 00;25;37;50
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Right? Yeah.
00;25;37;55 – 00;25;56;46
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
So yeah, I’m, I’m on the other side of that. I’m a little bit newer as far as how long I’ve been practicing. And I’d, you know, much more digital than I am analog, but it’s the same sort of thing. You can see certain cases and certain things that you do that you’re like, I really wish. And my, my, the lab I use, he’s great with the digital stuff.
00;25;56;46 – 00;26;17;15
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
We get great results. But every so often with a bigger case or something else that I have going on, I’m like, well, let’s do this one analog and let’s see. Yeah. And you know, ten times out of ten, the results better. And even my lab guys like, you know, I like doing some of this stuff more than the digital because I have more control over the analog case than I do the digital.
00;26;17;20 – 00;26;41;33
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. I mean, the digital, like you said, digital every day. Every day. Run of the mill posterior. Yeah. Great. It’s it’s actually more efficient. It’s way better. Yeah, yeah. But when you get in I want my technician to be able to have the ability to layer ceramic on it. Yeah. We got to, we got to stay now in the analog world because otherwise we’re taking a hit on it’s, it’s it’s when you go back and forth that it becomes a problem.
00;26;41;47 – 00;27;00;16
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Yeah. Even you know, apart from the ability to layer ceramic on it, you know, I think when you start getting into occlusion and maybe I’m wrong, but I, you know, I feel like maybe you still cannot manipulate, the digital cases as well as you can an analog case if you’re trying to deal with a wear case and things like that.
00;27;00;20 – 00;27;01;38
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
What do you see in that?
00;27;01;43 – 00;27;27;24
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I, we’re more in the analog world, but I will say that with some of the newer technology and mojo and some of these other more dynamic programs, I think we’re going to get to the point where the digital world is going to be superior, because we can actually look at a true hinge. We can try to find a true hinge, and we can go through we can emulate movement of the patient, actual clinical movements.
00;27;27;24 – 00;27;48;26
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Before we start. We can bring those same clinical movements back in. Will we design the case? But but when you do that, you’re also you’re talking at a much higher level of digital, for, for both the clinician, and the technician. Right. So it’s like you got to have a, a special group of people. Yes. It’s it’s the one percenters that are doing it.
00;27;48;41 – 00;28;06;04
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Right. So it’s like how long does it take for that to become mainstream. Yeah. And then you go, well how often do you need that. Right. And I think it’s for the special where case where you really want to get things dialed in and you really want to look at movement patterns. But I think things are moving in that direction.
00;28;06;04 – 00;28;06;41
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah.
00;28;06;46 – 00;28;24;57
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Yeah. So, kind of with your impact on spear and spear has kind of absorbed CE docs and all that stuff, and you have, you know, Mike, scram stad with you now, who brings a lot of the digital aspect. You know, we had him on a podcast earlier and he was talking about Mojo and things like that.
00;28;24;58 – 00;28;37;06
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
I think he is while he’s in the same age bracket that we’re in, he’s totally in the digital world. How are you guys merging the two or are you merging the two?
00;28;37;11 – 00;29;05;15
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah, yeah. We are merging the two, and it’s it’s, It’s interesting because it’s not as clean as you would think, and. Yeah. So here’s, here’s my, here’s my challenge as a, as an educator because I, I get people who are all analog. I get people who are all digital. And then I get a mixture of people kind of in between.
00;29;05;20 – 00;29;27;47
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so then you go, well, all right, how do we define it from an educational standpoint where you can’t lecture and teach to a quarter of the room at a time? Right. That makes no sense because you’re alienating the majority of the of the room. So you’ve got to be able to bring in both components, the analog and the digital component.
00;29;27;52 – 00;29;53;59
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And say that we can do it both ways. And so in this case, we’re going to show it in this world. In this case we’re going to show it in the other world. So everybody everybody comes out on the other end with the knowledge that they need to be able to be productive and successful in clinical practice. So it’s it’s a it’s an addiction that is not as easy as you would hope because you can’t you can’t go all in and you can’t turn a blind eye to it.
00;29;54;04 – 00;29;57;24
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
It’s got to be it’s got to be a combination of the two.
00;29;57;29 – 00;30;19;34
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Sure. Yeah. With Spear, I mean, we both went through a lot of your courses and stuff and you know, you know, personally it’s the most impactful continuing education venue for me. The stuff that you all have done that Bob’s done has been, you know, changing for me as a clinician. You know, you all are constantly changing. FGT was the capstone course kind of for everything.
00;30;19;34 – 00;30;32;53
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
And now with treatment planning with covenants, you kind of touched on this a little bit, but you know, how much of a change is that now from what Frank initially started with to where we are now and maybe going in the future?
00;30;32;58 – 00;30;50;13
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. That’s that’s a really good question. So the backbone, as you said, the backbone of what we teach at Spear is that facially generated planning, idea. And even though the name is changed for the workshop, it’s still it’s still facially generated through a planning.
00;30;50;13 – 00;30;51;12
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Okay. Good.
00;30;51;17 – 00;30;51;44
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Right.
00;30;51;49 – 00;31;13;06
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So it was interesting they changed the name because they didn’t. People. This is what I was told. It’s a little funny to me. The thought process was people don’t know what FGT is, so we should change the name into a more generic term. And I and I laughed. I said, that’s silly. And I’ll show you how silly it is in two ways.
00;31;13;06 – 00;31;33;52
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I said, people copy it all the time that you look out there and people are using esthetically generated good planning or airway airway esthetically, it’s like you don’t copy something that isn’t good and you don’t copy something that’s shitty, right? Yeah. And I said, I’ll also prove it to you a different way. And I said this.
00;31;33;52 – 00;31;53;26
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I said, you like everybody knows what ChatGPT is, right? Right. You all know what ChatGPT is. And everybody goes, yeah, we know what that is. I said, do you know what it means? Do you know what ChatGPT means? Because GPT is an acronym. And they go, I have no idea what it means. I said, this is FTP.
00;31;53;28 – 00;32;19;01
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
You don’t need to know what the acronym is for, but you know what it means. It means treatment plan, right? So in a sense the course is the same. But I will say this it’s better and it’s it’s not better because we’re better than Frank. It’s better because here’s what one thing I think Frank has done really well is you can only be an expert in like a couple of things, maybe one thing.
00;32;19;06 – 00;32;47;07
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Right? And you’re only one person, so you can’t do everything. And so what he’s done very well is he’s brought in people, you know, like Jim McKee for joint. And then we brought Mike in to help us with digital. And I brought Jeff Rouse in. And so we bring in experts to make us bigger and better. I think the workshop is better now because we’ve brought in Jeff and myself and we’ve changed how we think of treatment planning.
00;32;47;07 – 00;33;10;13
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Still based, in fact. Yeah, but we bring in an airway component in such a way that it makes sense in a regular general dentist practice, it makes sense you’re still doing dentistry. It’s just a different way to speak with patients about the dentistry that they need in a different explanation ideologically about why they are destroying their dentition.
00;33;10;18 – 00;33;32;34
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And I also think we brought in different you know, everybody wants systems in practice. Right. We have to have a system. When I came into practice with Frank there were no systems. There was I mean it was in the analog world. There was paper charts. And so I, I helped to develop some systems, and we went into the digital world with digital charts and radiographs and all these things that everybody does.
00;33;32;39 – 00;33;58;28
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so it made me appreciate the fact that we need systems and systems to gather data and systems to think our way through, how to assimilate that data, to put a plan together. And so, you know, we have probably even since you guys have been there, we’ve changed the whole workshop. I think it’s it’s better now than it’s ever been a more logical way to get the data, what the data means and how to apply it.
00;33;58;28 – 00;34;21;20
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And how to talk to patients, all of the pieces that you need clinically. I think it’s a better workshop. Yeah. Because because it we know more now and we’re able to bring it all together and have a kind of a common voice. Right. That’s kind of one thing that it’s been, imperative for me is when you bring in more people, you may start to have.
00;34;21;25 – 00;34;45;35
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Well, Bob does it this way, and then Jeff does it this way, but Greg does it this way, and everybody now goes, well, who the hell should I listen to? Yeah, I don’t know. Listen to And so we’ve we worked really hard where we all have a common voice that is, is speaking down the same road and you might hear something different, but it’s still the same concepts that are being taught throughout.
00;34;45;40 – 00;34;54;42
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So I’m really proud of what we’ve been able to put together and grow. Upon what Frank the foundation of what Frank did.
00;34;54;47 – 00;35;20;26
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
So kind of with what we’re doing, you know, simplified dentistry is, you know, something that we’re trying to advance clinical skills for docs, and we’re trying to advance it for who we call the seasoned aspirational doc, who is somebody who’s probably been a seasoned doc, has been in practice for ten years or more aspirational. Doc is the doc who came out kind of like me, at the the get go and is trying to be somebody who’s, clinical careers advance.
00;35;20;26 – 00;35;40;39
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
You know, what advice would you kind of have for a doc like me? I’ve been out 20 some odd years. I did all your stuff. And now I’m like, you know, do I just keep doing what I’ve been doing? Or is there a way to advance my career through what Spear is doing now, or or what advice would you have for that dog?
00;35;40;44 – 00;36;04;35
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. So it’s it’s interesting because our even our even our participants have changed at Spear. So I’ve been I’ve been a part of Frank since, late 90s. Right. So I’ve seen the evolution and we used to have the mainstay of the docs that came in to see us were like ten years or or, you know, longer in practice, ten, 15 years.
00;36;04;50 – 00;36;24;35
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
They’ve been through practice. They’ve made the mistakes. It’s it’s beaten them up a little bit because they’re on that hamster wheel and they want something more. And and so I think the, the program that we have put together at Spear, I call it a mini press residency because it trains you to think like a process. It honest.
00;36;24;40 – 00;36;58;27
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Now, there’s also been an evolution. I think today we’re in a really fun time of dentistry. I think with digital it makes it more interesting. I can do more. And with the idea of airway, being able to do some of the advanced kind of orthodontic concepts as advanced interdisciplinary care, I think, makes dentistry really fun. And so I think for that dentist who’s been down the road and you’re special because you’ve, you know, you’ve you’ve had a bunch of additional training.
00;36;58;32 – 00;37;00;31
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So let’s, let’s say it, it’s not you.
00;37;00;42 – 00;37;01;33
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Did you tell me.
00;37;01;38 – 00;37;04;43
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Well, you tell my wife that I’m special.
00;37;04;48 – 00;37;07;49
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I’ll write you a note.
00;37;07;54 – 00;37;10;34
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Dear Caroline.
00;37;10;39 – 00;37;33;33
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
It’s, you know, it’s, what we’ve put together. It it rejuvenates you because you’re seeing patients with a different set of eyes, and you’re helping patients differently than we used to. I’m helping them be better, feel better, healthier. The occlusion in the esthetics. Yeah, that’s. You’re going to get that. But you’re going to get a whole different support because of treating to the health.
00;37;33;38 – 00;38;01;51
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. But you know, for people who are still on the realm of just doing single tooth dentistry. Yeah, things like any advanced education that’s going to give you a process to be able to not and I’m not going to say find new patients because every office has patients who require a different set of skills. But if you don’t see them and you don’t have the confidence or the competence to talk or treat them, you’re not going to talk to them at all.
00;38;01;56 – 00;38;09;46
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Right? All right. Well, you’re just you’re sitting there as a clinician and you’re going, I hope to hell they don’t ask me what to do because I have no idea.
00;38;09;51 – 00;38;11;03
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. Right.
00;38;11;08 – 00;38;12;40
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so, you know, I’ll just.
00;38;12;40 – 00;38;14;21
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Dump them on the prosthodontist.
00;38;14;26 – 00;38;34;26
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. I, you know, I think, I think a lot of those cases can be treated successfully and in a regular restorative practice, but in a different, a different set of skills. And you needed the confidence to be able to, to know how to treat and plan on how to talk to them and then actually how to treat them.
00;38;34;31 – 00;38;52;11
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Right, right. You need like the full bag of tricks to be able to do it. And I think that’s what we’ve created. But I think even for, let’s say, you know, someone like you who’s been through it and things have changed, we have had such an evolution and and, you know, the advanced we have a new advanced treatment planning workshop.
00;38;52;15 – 00;39;16;07
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
It’s the culmination of our core curriculum. That brings every piece together from airway to worn dentition to joints to esthetics. And it’s basically three days of just intense treatment planning, bringing in all of the treatment planning options and how to utilize them. So, it’s like there’s a little bit of something for everybody, whether you’re the seasoned dentist.
00;39;16;16 – 00;39;26;55
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. Or you’re in the other tier, which is that new level of dentist who’s just like, I think I want to do more than I’m able to do. What do I need to do to be able to do that?
00;39;27;00 – 00;39;35;08
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
So what’s your advice? For you, you have a kid who’s a first year dentist. Yeah. So what’s your advice for the rookie dentist.
00;39;35;13 – 00;39;55;59
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
The rookie dentists that are coming out today? I’m. I feel sorry for them, because I’m involved in a couple of different universities, and I just know that compared to, let’s say, when we went to school, we got all sorts of reps in. And, you know, we got to do a lot of dentistry. And so you get out and you have a pretty good feel for it.
00;39;56;04 – 00;40;02;57
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I don’t think they get the same number of reps. And for those students who were in school around the time of Covid, even even.
00;40;03;05 – 00;40;04;07
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah.
00;40;04;11 – 00;40;29;40
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
You know, I, my, my I have a practice partner now who’s an endodontist, who’s in the practice with me, and, he teaches in the endo program and, and in the undergraduate endo program. And they may do one patient. They’re just working on extract teeth and, and I’m, I remember when we were, when we were in school, it was, it was like we had x amount of molars in the anterior and neck.
00;40;29;45 – 00;40;32;47
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And then you got you go back and it was hard.
00;40;32;50 – 00;40;36;36
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But now you know it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;40;36;41 – 00;41;03;20
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So, so I think that the new dentists that are coming out, it’s, it’s interesting our, our main people are coming in to, let’s say the treatment planning workshop today when I, when I ask them who they are when they went to school, these types of things, the vast majority are out less than five years. It’s different than when I, you know, like when I started with Frank, like everybody had already been through it.
00;41;03;20 – 00;41;28;04
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And they’re like, I’ve made the mistakes. You’ll get those people who are seasoned, but most of them are young people. And they’re being sent in by, you know, they’re looking at their senior doctors and they’re like, you need to get a foundation now. But if you don’t have that, seeing your doctor that’s pushing you for a higher level of education.
00;41;28;09 – 00;41;47;34
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
You may be over whelmed, going that’s too much for me right now. Like I need to know how to kind of crown prep because. So here’s a little sorry. This is a little aside. I was putting together something for Spear, and we were trying to these new small bite information like we’re all of. I want I want information now.
00;41;47;48 – 00;42;02;53
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I don’t want to spend ten minutes watching the video. I want it to be in two minutes because my attention span is is smaller. And so I thought, all right, what can I do for a dentist in a small amount of time? It’s impactful. And I thought, all right, what if I went through something that said, all right, what is Greg?
00;42;02;53 – 00;42;20;26
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
How would Greg look at it tooth and go, well, that should be a composite. It should be an inlay. That should be an online or that should be a crown that might be beneficial to a bunch of dentists. Or so I thought. In order to do my research, let me ask our daughter, who is just a new dentist.
00;42;20;30 – 00;42;37;25
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And so I said to Meg, and I said, can you tell me what you’re being taught or what you were just taught about when you do an inlay versus a online versus a crown? And her response like, floored me. She goes, they’re all crowns. It’s all it’s all a crown.
00;42;38;13 – 00;42;58;25
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And I’m like, well you don’t get you know, you don’t get knowledge. It shows. No. It’s like we don’t everything’s a crown because the school needs money and that’s how you pay with insurances. You do crowns. I said but they don’t give you the foundation of what you would. You get out in practice and like preserving to structure and prepping less and like when you would choose it.
00;42;58;38 – 00;43;23;28
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Nope. So, so I think that there is a need of tiered education. You got to build some foundation for a lot of these brand new dentists to get some reps in. So they think of things differently than what an institution might say is, is, you know, your dental school. And I know Spear is working very hard right now on that level.
00;43;23;32 – 00;43;41;01
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And I don’t want to say it’s, it’s a, it’s a dumbed down, but essentially it’s more of a basic entry point, where I got to help you do the best dentistry. If you’re just going to do single tooth dentistry, how to treatment plan it, how to do it, how to do composites better, how to do less invasive preps.
00;43;41;06 – 00;44;01;14
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And in that process, once you can build a foundation, all right, now you’re ready to be able to look at things with a different set of eyes. And now let’s go into things like put and planning with confidence and get you to think differently. So there’s been an evolution because before spear was all about the inspiration or aspirational dentists.
00;44;01;19 – 00;44;17;54
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Right. I want to be the best whatever that means to you. Best in your town, best in your state. I want to be the, I want to be the most honest. It’s the best great. But now we have to focus also on the other people who just I want to be a better dentist that I think I am today.
00;44;17;58 – 00;44;21;20
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And that might mean let’s let’s break it down into smaller pieces.
00;44;21;25 – 00;44;38;28
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
What’s the really crazy? Because kind of coming into this, I was like, I want to ask Greg about, you know, what takes you from good to great and what what is spear doing for that? I feel like I have an understanding of that. It’s almost like spear is having to go, well, let’s get you good. Yeah. I mean, we have that.
00;44;38;28 – 00;44;42;58
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
We have to provide the foundations for you to be good. Forget being great.
00;44;43;02 – 00;44;44;56
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Oh, yeah. You gotta walk before you run.
00;44;45;00 – 00;45;01;02
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah, it’s it and it’s it’s it. You’re 100% right. And that’s actually got to walk for your run. Got to be got to be good before you can be great. You’re going to find the great ones in there who want to be great. But a lot of people just, I got a lot of classmates that I went to dental school with.
00;45;01;06 – 00;45;17;38
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I’ve never seen them in anything that I’ve done. I’ve never seen them in any course. Handful. Yes, but everybody, you know, a lot of people just want to just. I’m just going to plug away. I’m just going to do what I mean, do my single teeth stuff. I’m just going to be happy doing it. Good living. But I, I want to be good.
00;45;17;43 – 00;45;37;03
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. So we’ve never focused on that. We’ve always assumed a certain level of knowledge because. Because that’s I mean, we’re trained as prosthodontists. So we’re thinking of it like a different, different level. So I think now we’ve taken a step back and said, all right, we’ve excluded a lot of people who can benefit from just being better at what they do.
00;45;37;08 – 00;45;47;34
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So they’re focusing on that as well. We’re not going to lose our inspirational, aspirational piece. Right. Because that’s our foundation. That’s what we’re built on. But we’re going to apply that at a different level.
00;45;47;39 – 00;46;11;51
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah. I feel like Bob’s course, the restorative design course and then the Anterior one, I mean, I feel like I got a solid education at The University of North Carolina and, you know, it set me up to be, you know, where I was coming out of school, but same sort of thing, like you’re saying. Yeah, we had, one semester course, fourth year, you know, every other week, I think called advanced restorative dentistry.
00;46;11;56 – 00;46;26;59
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah. And so that’s where we look at veneers and onlays and inlays, but at the same sort of thing, you’re taught how to do class twos really well. And you’re taught how to do crowns. Yeah. And then the rest of it you’re like, oh, here’s this one course we’re kind of going to throw a bunch of stuff at you.
00;46;27;04 – 00;46;39;38
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
But then taking Bob’s course, it really started to make more sense. And it’s awesome. And Bob’s course is one of those things that I felt like I walked out of that, that following Monday, I was like, oh, cool, I can use this in my office. The next day.
00;46;39;43 – 00;47;07;21
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
His courses, it’s the ROI on his course. Oh gosh, can be in place the next the next time you’re sitting with the patient. And it doesn’t matter if you’re fresh out of school or you’ve been in practice 20 years. Yeah, you will be more efficient, better preps with more ideal treatment. Planning of preps after his course. So so our daughter who’s a dentist now I we had her come and take Bob’s course.
00;47;07;21 – 00;47;15;00
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
She took my treatment planning workshop and Bob’s restorative design workshop. Yeah. As a third year.
00;47;15;05 – 00;47;15;53
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Oh, wow.
00;47;15;57 – 00;47;21;08
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And then I had the sit down. I said, okay, she went to UofP. So third year is like fourth year.
00;47;21;08 – 00;47;21;35
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Oh, yeah.
00;47;21;35 – 00;47;39;38
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. I said, now you’re not going to be able to apply this in school. You’re not going to take the BRS back and you’re not going to like, you don’t want to do that, but I want you to see your it’ll make you better at what they’re teaching you. But it also gives you a mind that when you’re out, there’s other things that you need to be focusing on on your preps.
00;47;39;49 – 00;47;52;51
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. It’s not a crown. Right. So so I think it’s that that course is a really special course because you’re by the time you’re out of that workshops three days, you’ve almost prep like a, like a full mouth or two full miles.
00;47;52;53 – 00;47;53;27
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Exactly.
00;47;53;34 – 00;47;56;39
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. Yeah, it’s really good. Bob does a great job.
00;47;56;54 – 00;48;05;20
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah, I came out of that course and my lab guy called me the next week, had sent some cases, told me I was like, man, here’s like, you’re pretty good, but you’re a lot better now.
00;48;05;25 – 00;48;05;57
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
What happened?
00;48;06;10 – 00;48;07;21
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;48;07;26 – 00;48;10;17
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
And I was like, I sent Bob a note and I was like, thanks.
00;48;10;21 – 00;48;11;55
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. That’s special. Yeah.
00;48;12;08 – 00;48;15;15
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Greg, what’s your advice for the ten year doc?
00;48;15;20 – 00;48;17;02
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah. Selfishly, I’d like to hear that.
00;48;17;11 – 00;48;21;44
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Ten year, doc. You know who’s been in their practice kind of at that crossroads,
00;48;21;48 – 00;48;24;16
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
At their own practice for maybe five years.
00;48;24;21 – 00;48;44;34
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I again, I think we have things for you. And what I would ask you is what is your passion? What do you like focusing on in practice? Like it? Ten years. You should know what you don’t want to do. Right. And it’s easier ten years because you should be successful enough that you can actually kick those ones out.
00;48;44;39 – 00;49;05;58
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Or you bring in an associate. Right. And then you give here’s like here you’re going to do the dentures. Yeah. You’re going to do the molar endo whatever it might be. So I go right, what do you, what do you want to focus on? Like what? What jazzes you what excites you? And sometimes you don’t know what excites you until you see somebody lecture and I go, I want to do those types of cases.
00;49;05;58 – 00;49;32;35
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Come on. That we have all of that at spear. And I think the interdisciplinary for me, and I think for a lot of clinicians treating things as a team, the team approach with my orthodontist and my periodontist tomorrow, surgeon man, I’ll tell you what, that’s fun. You can do amazing benefits and changes for patients and the passion when you’re working in a team atmosphere.
00;49;32;40 – 00;49;37;19
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And that’s enjoyable. I love it. Well, that’s one thing.
00;49;37;24 – 00;49;54;13
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah, we were talking about this earlier and one of the my big takeaways from Spear between your lectures and Franks and everybody else’s is the interdisciplinary kind of comprehensive care approach. Yeah. And the first lecture I took was a worn dentition seminar.
00;49;54;18 – 00;49;55;43
Mustafa Shah-Khan
Building the team is the tough.
00;49;55;43 – 00;50;14;23
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Part. Yeah. And Frank would talk about, well, this is me. This is my part, this is my orthodontist’s part. This is the periodontist’s part. And so, you know, how did you personally get your team together? And who’s the quarterback of your team? I think I know the answer to that second question, but how did you get your team together?
00;50;14;28 – 00;50;37;10
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
You know what? I think that my answer is terrible because my team, was put together. I’m not going to say for me, but kind of. Yeah, because it was it was the junior, the juniors of Vince Coaches and Dave Matthews like the guys that they bring in. Yeah. Now that was my team. In fact, a funny story.
00;50;37;15 – 00;51;00;54
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So Jim Janakievski, is my, the periodontist that I work with. And I think he’s amazing. He was the year behind me. So I’m like, I’m the elder of our group. I was in the grad clinic teaching, and he was a student in perio, and he had finally decided that, you know, Vince Cokich, junior or senior, talked him into, like, stay.
00;51;00;54 – 00;51;01;52
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
He’s Canadian.
00;51;02;33 – 00;51;21;12
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So they talked him into staying in Seattle, and, and Dave Matthews kind of talked him into practicing with him. And so he comes over to me and he goes, he goes, are you Gregg? And I go, yeah. And he goes, my name is Jim. And I thought I should introduce myself because apparently we’re going to be working together.
00;51;21;17 – 00;51;21;57
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So.
00;51;22;02 – 00;51;32;55
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So, my team was kind of put together because I had the juniors of of the people that were like that. The main three, Vince, Dave and Frank.
00;51;33;00 – 00;51;35;02
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Nice little cozy, arranged marriage. Nice.
00;51;35;02 – 00;51;58;07
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah, exactly. That’s exactly what it was. Just happened to work out. But. But I think your teams change, as you go through. I think you’re right. And you said that it’s hard sometimes to put together teams because you got to have a, it’s not just I need an orthodontist and I need a periodontist is I need to have somebody who’s passionate about what they do, and they have the same vision that that we have.
00;51;58;12 – 00;52;19;51
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Right. So now you got to find a personality in it as well. Right. And, and you also have to have a team that wants to push and learn together. Yeah. Right. Because if and I’ll tell you the hardest person to find for the team is the orthodontist. Because today the orthodontists have such an impact on the health and the airway piece.
00;52;19;56 – 00;52;39;34
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah, but I’ll tell you, as an orthodontist, it’s not as easy as straightening that kid’s teeth. It takes more time to do these big adult worn dentition, expand them jaw surgery cases. Yeah, it’s hard to make money on those. So it’s hard to find a new orthodontist who’s who’s tapped into that wants to do that?
00;52;39;34 – 00;52;58;26
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
That’s that’s a that’s a special. Find that orthodontist and give them a big hug and hang on to them. Yeah, right. But I think as you go through practice, you’re going to find times where my team is going to change, what the team is that that’s that’s the most important. Now, your answer, your question about who’s the quarterback?
00;52;58;31 – 00;53;13;23
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I’m going to answer it two ways. You know, I’m going to say it’s me. But when I work with Jim, he laughs at that. He goes quarterback. Yeah. And and I said, yeah, you’re Canadian. You don’t know what we’re best.
00;53;13;23 – 00;53;14;08
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Right?
00;53;14;13 – 00;53;26;04
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Right. So his joke is you’re not the quarterback, Gregg. You’re the wedding planner, right? You’re the wedding planner of our group. You’re just like, all right, the flowers need to arrive.
00;53;26;04 – 00;53;26;25
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
At this.
00;53;26;29 – 00;53;52;51
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Time. And then catering starts here. I said, that’s fair. I’ll take that. I’ll take that into your shot. But I think that the quarterback changes depending on who’s in your team. Because I’m guessing you guys work with different specialists. Yeah, right. And sometimes, depending on the specialist, I might know more than that specialist. And sometimes that specialist might know more than the restorative
00;53;52;51 – 00;53;59;00
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Dentist. And so it’s like whoever’s got the knowledge base now becomes that quarterback to help drive the treatment plan. Sure.
00;53;59;00 – 00;53;59;33
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah.
00;53;59;38 – 00;54;07;22
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Right. But I think it must. The onus is always on you and I as the restorative dentist because we’re the last.
00;54;07;22 – 00;54;08;23
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Person you live with it.
00;54;08;25 – 00;54;10;38
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah. Yeah. We’re the ones that living with the case. Yeah.
00;54;10;43 – 00;54;23;05
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
You’re the last one to have your hands on that page. So if, if it’s not set up well and it comes out less perfect than you would hope. Yeah. Who gets blamed.
00;54;23;10 – 00;54;24;03
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Oh it’s on you.
00;54;24;14 – 00;54;24;58
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah.
00;54;25;03 – 00;54;42;30
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And it’s, it’s because it wasn’t set up correctly. Yeah. Now it’s on me. So I, we need to have our input in there because the fingers are going to be pointed at the restorative person. Yeah. That dentist. Oh who did that. Who, who fucking nailed those things. All the gingival margins are off. Oh that was earlier.
00;54;42;31 – 00;54;45;39
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Not supposed to kind of set up. Well the surgery. No I don’t care on it.
00;54;45;41 – 00;55;01;51
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah. It’s on us. Yeah I’m dealing with that kind of a case. Kind of like that right now with an orthodontist buddy of mine and his aunt. Oh yeah. And he’s like, well, can’t you do this, this and this to correct it, I was like, I can, but why don’t you put her teeth in the right spot first?
00;55;01;56 – 00;55;02;22
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
But yeah.
00;55;02;22 – 00;55;11;27
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
But one of the best things ever happened to me is, that orthodontist thought he was sending the patient to me, but he was really more patient, and I was like, great, you know?
00;55;11;27 – 00;55;11;43
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah.
00;55;11;45 – 00;55;12;54
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
You keep her.
00;55;12;59 – 00;55;29;10
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
It’s. And she she’s as nice as she can be, but it’s a nightmare. She went to a guy in town, too. I was like, let me just go send you to Patrick, let you see what he. And she was like, it’s $85,000. I was like, that sounds about like he’s not going to make enough money on, you know?
00;55;29;15 – 00;55;40;55
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Yeah. That’s one question I have for you is, we like to ask people, you know, what is the mistake you made in your career that you learned from that really impacted the development of your career after that?
00;55;41;00 – 00;56;14;36
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I haven’t been asked that question before. Yeah. Yeah, I love that question. What was the pivotal thing that changed? It was, you know what? I do have one patient in when one treatment, you learn the most when things don’t go well, and it’s a, it’s a hard pill to swallow. But when everything goes swimmingly, I’m not getting as much out of it.
00;56;14;36 – 00;56;36;37
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
You need to be kicked down a little bit, and then claw your way back up to the surface and go, all right. Now, it wasn’t. It was a case. It was, it was a worn dentition patient. I think we can learn a lot from those patients where everything I did just didn’t work. And it was constant occlusal issues, breaking provisionals, breaking things.
00;56;36;41 – 00;56;52;52
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And it was like, Jesus Christ, like, what am I? What am I missing here? And I finally worked my way back around it. And if I would have thought of it differently from the beginning, if I would have seen what I missed from the beginning, I wouldn’t have been in the problem. But I learned so much from it.
00;56;52;52 – 00;57;18;31
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
So I think things, when things break and patients are having all sorts of problems, you can learn a ton from that. So I think it’s always an occlusal aspect, a Warren dentition, patients, with occlusion and fracturing things. And I think as a clinician, we like to point the finger at the technician and the material. Right.
00;57;18;36 – 00;57;31;05
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Was a shitty material. And the technician, it’s never that. it’s always in the design aspect of it. And that should be on you and I. Yeah. Yeah, it’s a good question. That’s a fantastic question.
00;57;31;05 – 00;57;43;28
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Thank you. I had a couple little quick hitter questions for you and then I know we have one kind of big question we ask everybody at the end. So when you need dentistry who does it?
00;57;43;32 – 00;57;55;04
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I have had Frank was my dentist when he was practicing. And now that he’s not practicing, my wife is my dentist, so she’s she is. Very good.
00;57;55;04 – 00;57;58;07
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Answer. Yes. Smart, a smart man.
00;57;58;12 – 00;58;08;28
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
How how did I talk kids, our kids into dentistry? It wasn’t me. They looked at their mother and they said, oh, this, this this is great. So, Jill, Jill does my dentistry.
00;58;08;35 – 00;58;09;13
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
00;58;09;15 – 00;58;15;13
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And she’s fantastic. She was trained. She’s not a prosthodontist. But she she plays one in my office. Sure.
00;58;15;16 – 00;58;16;15
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Okay.
00;58;16;19 – 00;58;27;32
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
But she’s, she’s a microscope academy dentist. Was one of the founding members, and so she’s always been dialed into a higher level, of dentistry. So she’s my clinician.
00;58;27;43 – 00;58;31;30
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Nice. Red or white wine?
00;58;31;35 – 00;58;40;33
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Red. It’s red, but I have appreciation for white. I’m now I start with white. And then move into red.
00;58;40;38 – 00;58;42;15
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Nice.
00;58;42;20 – 00;58;46;06
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
What’s your golf handicap?
00;58;46;10 – 00;58;48;50
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
7.7, 7.9 right now.
00;58;48;56 – 00;58;52;04
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
When’s the last time you played?
00;58;52;09 – 00;59;04;28
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I have not played. I played, I have a child who is graduating from college from Arizona State. So I played with him, in October was the last time I played in Arizona.
00;59;04;32 – 00;59;05;06
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Okay.
00;59;05;11 – 00;59;06;02
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Do you take Skramstad down?
00;59;06;16 – 00;59;09;03
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Do you take Skramstads money on the golf course?
00;59;09;08 – 00;59;15;59
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I’ve only played Mike once. I beat him that one time, but I shouldn’t have beaten him
00;59;16;04 – 00;59;16;27
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Okay?
00;59;16;41 – 00;59;20;25
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
He’s it. That guy is amazing. Yeah. So I I’ve never played with him again.
00;59;20;30 – 00;59;21;48
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah.
00;59;21;52 – 00;59;26;46
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
And then I guess one kind of clinical, one, air driven or electric and pieces.
00;59;26;51 – 00;59;36;22
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Always electric. They get changed. When I got into practice was electric, and people say I got mad money. I want to improve my practice. What should I do? Electric campuses.
00;59;36;26 – 00;59;41;00
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Nice. And. And what brand of electric and pieces?
00;59;41;05 – 01;00;00;38
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah. Started. I’ll tell you what. When I started in practice, we started with Kevo. And and then Bressler NSK came out with their hand piece. I had, I had two electric handpiece, two electric high speeds. Yeah. And I would go back and forth between the two. Now Bressler and SK is my go to handpiece.
01;00;00;43 – 01;00;01;54
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
So did you have it. Same thing for.
01;00;01;58 – 01;00;06;43
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Did you ever change from the the brass or NSK to the actual just NSK?
01;00;06;48 – 01;00;07;18
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
No.
01;00;07;20 – 01;00;18;47
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Because, you know, I mean, I, I do a little work with it, NSK and, you know, I hear a lot from them about how the actual NSK is different than the, than the, the, co-branded NSK.
01;00;18;58 – 01;00;24;15
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Are you are you use it or what is the difference? I’m anxious now. Not not use my cost me money.
01;00;24;20 – 01;00;25;43
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah.
01;00;25;48 – 01;00;45;11
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
So so so like the the new the like the Z 95 L yeah. The brass or version to the, NSK version is smaller or I mean, the Dennis K version is smaller, so the head smaller, the angles are a little different. So it’s like they’ve, they’ve made like the stripped down version, like you’re using the Toyota versus.
01;00;45;11 – 01;00;47;01
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
I’ve, I’ve got, I’ve got the, the.
01;00;47;07 – 01;00;47;39
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
The Lexus the.
01;00;47;39 – 01;01;00;27
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Lexus. You know, so that that’s kind of what they said. There’s a little bit more advances in the NSK versions. And then they’re going to the Z 99 L, which they’re sending me one to test, in a couple of weeks. But it’ll be interesting. Yeah.
01;01;00;32 – 01;01;13;47
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I, I think I should look into this now because there are always times where I go, this handpiece is just too big for that person’s opening in the tooth I gotta hit. So if it’s a smaller head, different angles, it might actually make my life a little easier at times.
01;01;14;00 – 01;01;18;28
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
And they have that Z 85 that they built a smaller one, but it’s also lower torque.
01;01;18;42 – 01;01;34;18
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Also, I’ll send you a picture that I have of it’s, it’s I was like, you know, man is is starting to walk and is coming out of the water. And it’s literally, all of the nsrcc is throughout my career and it’s kind of crazy to look at the head sizes, but I’ll send you a picture of that.
01;01;34;23 – 01;01;38;16
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
This is fantastic. I mean, this is great. Yeah, I love it. Thank you. Yes.
01;01;38;16 – 01;01;40;04
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Good, good. We gave you something nice. Yeah.
01;01;40;08 – 01;01;41;47
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
I love oh.
01;01;41;52 – 01;01;43;11
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I lost some money, though.
01;01;43;20 – 01;01;45;32
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Oh, that’s right, that’s right.
01;01;45;37 – 01;01;47;47
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Maybe I’ll get the NSK guys to send you one.
01;01;47;52 – 01;01;49;42
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah a teaser.
01;01;49;49 – 01;01;55;51
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
That’s right. The the other question that I. So do you know which motor you’re using?
01;01;55;56 – 01;01;59;01
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I mean, I mean, I off the top of my head, I don’t know.
01;01;59;12 – 01;02;19;55
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Yeah, I’ve, I’ve been transitioning some of their motors too. So, we’ll have to put our heads together on this one later. The last question we like to ask everybody, you obviously we’re simplified dentistry and kind of our goal is to help docs, make dentistry simpler. You know, dentistry is hard, you know. So what is your advice to our listeners on how they can simplify practice?
01;02;19;59 – 01;02;39;43
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I think that you need I think simplifying practice is one thing. I think getting more enjoyment out of practice is the other piece to that. Right. Because you can keep your world simple, but you might not be enjoying what you do. And if you can, you know, you’ve been in practice for a while. I’ve been in practice for a long time.
01;02;39;43 – 01;02;59;11
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I, you know, you’re in practice almost 30 years. God, I hope you like what you’re doing for 30 years. I hope it’s not like Monday morning comes. You go. Jesus Christ. Okay, here we go. Starting up again? Yeah. Right. So I think the enjoyment in the simplicity and the predictability, I think it those three things to me, all go together.
01;02;59;16 – 01;03;22;35
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
And I think in order to do that, I just think you need to find a mentor that enables you to think differently, to pull as much enjoyment and predictability out as you can, and then do the dentistry at whatever level that you want to aspire to, right? You want to do four miles. That’s a boatload of stress, and, and worrisome things.
01;03;22;35 – 01;03;42;34
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
But you just might want to do more predictable dentistry on the anterior for where patients, whatever that level is for you find to find a place where you can go that’s going to give you the competence and confidence to be able to do that. I think that’s going to simplify your life. So you’re not going home at night thinking, oh my God, what the hell am I going to do with that patient?
01;03;42;47 – 01;04;01;50
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah, right. That’s that’s what drives us crazy, is you get a handful of patients and you’re just perplexed, right? And then you get gun shy and you never want to see them again. You never want to see that patient type again. And I think you can serve more people, and you serve them better by gaining confidence and competence and what you do.
01;04;01;55 – 01;04;07;10
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
But you’re not going to get it just out of dental school. It’s like they’re going to give you the basics. That’s it.
01;04;07;15 – 01;04;13;45
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
Well, thank you very much, Greg. We’ve enjoyed having you. We really appreciate everything you do for the profession. And thank you for taking the time with us.
01;04;13;56 – 01;04;14;57
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Yeah. Thanks again.
01;04;15;04 – 01;04;22;55
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Hey, this has been this has been very, very fun for me. I enjoy talking to you guys. You got some really good questions. I like the back and forth. It’s been it’s been a pleasure. Thank you all.
01;04;22;55 – 01;04;26;32
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
So sorry I cost you some money on hand pieces.
01;04;26;37 – 01;04;26;43
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Yeah.
01;04;26;56 – 01;04;33;21
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
I’m going to come out better on this though. That’s right, I like it. I’m all about the new toys anyway, so I’m excited for that.
01;04;33;35 – 01;04;34;54
Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan
That’s right. But thanks again Greg.
01;04;35;02 – 01;04;35;29
Dr. Murtuza Shah-Khan
Thanks, Greg.
01;04;35;29 – 01;04;36;41
Dr. Gregg Kinzer
Thanks, gentlemen. Yeah.